I’m flying up to Spokane, Washington, to pick up my new-to-me Honda Insight tomorrow night! I’m pretty excited. I needed a new commuter vehicle to be able to make it to my new job that I’m starting January 5. Why did I choose this Insight?
* CVT (Continuously Variable Transmission) gas mileage: 57mpg highway. * Really comfortable to drive. It’s definitely an econo-box, but drives like a really sporty one. * Cool technology. Hybrids rock. * Very unique body styling. * I like the “arrest me” red. * Great deal.
My 2001 Insight costs $10,895 for a CVT model with air conditioning, and power everything. No CD changer or cruise, but I aim to correct that. It only has 25,000 miles, and was only driven for 18 months. It’s just 20 months old now! The same car, new, was nearly $23,000 MSRP. Mine is also Honda Certified, which is a nice little bonus that extends the powertrain warranty.
I looked into the Toyota Prius, but aside from it holding its value better in the used market than the Insight (hey, I’m honest, the Insight drops value like a rock mostly due to being a two-seater with very low demand), well, I just thought it was ugly. It drives nicely, and has nifty features (particularly the all-electric drive at city speeds), but I decided it wasn’t for me after driving the Insight. The Insight drives like a pocket sports car, while the Prius drives more like, well, a sedate family vehicle. The Prius has great speed off the line, comparable to the Insight (no mean feat at 800 more pounds), but doesn’t corner nearly as well. The Insight comes loaded with power-everything by default at a relatively low price, and is a lot more comfortable to drive (IMHO, as far as having a spacious front seat is concerned). Power windows, doors, heated rearview mirrors, intermittent wipers, rear wiper, remote keyless entry, the works — you pay quite a bit more for all of that on the Prius. The only things the Prius really has over the Insight are a back seat, more cargo area, slightly higher safety rating with some options (canopy airbags), less road noise, and a good stereo. Insight beats it hands-down on gas mileage, lower price (fully-loaded insight is about the same price as a stripped-down Prius), cornering, consistent gas tank size (Prius’ gas “bladder” is quite a bit smaller in winter), and some other things. I think, though, like most car decisions once price is out of the way, it really boils down to an emotional decision. I really like how the Insight looks and handles compared to the Prius, though I like the Prius’ gadget screen and ability to run in electric-only mode better.
The 2004 Prius, though, seems to have corrected many of these deficiencies: better gas mileage, better styling, faster off the line, etc. It’s a real second-generation hybrid. But, unfortunately, I’m in the market for a used car, not new, and can’t really afford a $400/month car payment over five years right now 🙂
Unfortunately, in trying to haggle with a local dealership over the price of a similar Insight, knowing what it’s going for at wholesale volume auction ($5,000-$7,000), I offered $8,000 to counter their sticker price of $14,450. I was thrown out of the joint rather rudely — a topic for another blog, I think. I thought haggling was the art of negotiating, not the art of “the dealer sets the price and refuses to budge”. Eh, well. If I were to do it again, I would probably just pick the price I were willing to pay, rather than doing math in my head to figure out if we both give-and-take equally where we’ll end up.
Anyway, the one I’m getting is in even better condition than the one at the local dealership (which was Las Vegas-owned, 29,000 miles, a little over 2 years old). This one for which I have a cashier’s check in my hot little hand, only had a single owner, in Washington State. In case you’re unfamiliar with the Insight, as a hybrid electric/gasoline vehicle, it uses a battery pack to store power generated by the gas motor for the electric motor to use to assist when heavy acceleration is necessary. Unfortunately, Nickel Metal Hydride batteries rapidly deteriorate in temperatures higher than 140 degrees Farenheit. If you’re in a southern region, like Nevada, Texas, or Florida, it’s easy to reach 170+ on the inside of a vehicle, which dramatically shortens battery life.
So it’s been kept in a cool climate, and the lifetime miles-per-gallon on it reads 56.1 MPG. That means it was driven VERY carefully by the previous owner! It’s 51 city / 57 highway rated by the EPA, and on the CVT model, the lack of “lean burn” which you can achieve on the manual stops it from getting the absolutely stratospheric mileage some Insight owners achieve. I figure I’ll be really happy with over 600 miles per 11-gallon tank of gas, though.
I’m thinking I may be willing to sacrifice some MPG for better traction in the snowy winter about to set upon us. Snow tires are pretty expensive, and will destroy my miles-per-gallon, but safety is more important than economy in my humble opinion. At least I’m consoled in the knowledge that no matter what sort of car I’m driving, they’ll be similarly impacted at the gas pump by the addition of snow tires.
If any of you loyal readers ever get out near Tooele, UT, give me a holler and I’ll give you a ride. It’s a neat little car, and Sunday through Monday I get to come to know it intimately on a 750-mile drive back home from Spokane. Insights are low-production (only 4,000 per year in the U.S.), they look really unique, and they are a lot of fun to drive. Glad I found one so cheap, and had such a positive experience with the dealer over long distance.
For those interested, click here for the pictures of it on the lot up at Soupy’s Auto Sales in Post Falls, Idaho (a bedroom community for Spokane).
Cool car…
Good for you.. and what a steal.. with the Honda warranty too.. good for you.. if this car is anything like my little Honda, you should be able to drive it forever!
Speaking of driving forever…
Speaking of driving forever, just got back off the 780-mile trip (in one day!) from Spokane. I made it in 13 hours, minus time for potty breaks and stuff.
This car is a little demon 🙂 I like it! Bright red, accelerates 0-60 in about 11 seconds, cruises at 80 mph sipping gas at 45-50 mpg. I can get up to around sixty miles per gallon if I drive more carefully, and down around 55-60 mph. The standard can do enormously more, due to a different method of handling gasoline burn (which the automatic can’t do due to too much friction in the transmission), but it’s still really nice. And even when I’m “only” getting 45 miles per gallon, I know that’s at least twenty more than any other automatic on the road driven the same way 🙂
It was a long drive, but worth it to save over a thousand bucks and stick it to the idiots at West Valley Suzuki. “Big Al” Tofua was a jerk towards me, and I’m really glad I was able to find a superb deal almost $4,000 cheaper than what they wanted.
And it’s the car I’ve wanted for almost five years, since I first read about it in 1999. People have done some bizarre modifications to them, but here’s what worked for me:
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Matthew P. Barnson
Greetings I was doing some re
Greetings I was doing some research on the battery life on the insight. I am a messenger so I rack up 70000+ miles a year on a car. I was wondering how many miles you have put on yours and if you had to replace the battery. Its this or a mini cooper, and the mini is just a bit sexier. If i can save 1800 a year in gass well i can live with a bit less sexyy 🙂
80,000 mile warranty
The batteries come with an 8-year, 80,000-mile warranty. It really depends on what type of driving you are doing.
In case you are not familiar with rechargeable Lithium Ion batteries, there are two things that kill them:
Most of the Honda Insights that must have their packs replaced prior to 80,000 miles are from warm-weather climates. Georgia, Florida, Nevada, and Southern California are some I’ve read about specifically. So heat, particularly that type that happens when the car is left sitting in the hot sun, is the most common killer of the 144Volt battery pack.
Next, there’s charge-discharge cycles. Given your heavy usage, you have to evaluate, basically, how “hilly” your messenger-ing area is. I can make it about 3,000 vertical feet with my foot to the floor going ninety miles an hour before my pack fully discharges. If I choose to downshift, take the speed a bit easier, and avoid using my battery as much as possible for the assist, I can make it to the top without using any of my pack at all. However, if I were to fully discharge my pack every single day, I’m fairly certain it would not last more than a small handful of years before needing replacement.
My commute to work is very non-hilly. I try to minimize my use of the electrical assist so as to forestall that inevitable pack replacement to some point in the distant future. I do about 25,000 miles a year in my Insight, and am a little over 50,000 miles now, with a lifetime history of about 57 miles per gallon in my automatic transmission model (the manual transmission can do significantly better, frequently much better than 70MPG). So far, zero problems. However, given your extraordinarily heavy use, the Insight may not be the best choice for you unless you are willing to make radical changes to your personal driving habits in order to extend your pack life.
A single $3,000 pack replacement will eat up all your gasoline savings for several years in one shot. If you’re ever in Utah, I’ll be glad to let you have a drive (just register on this site and send me an instant message). Or head over to Insight Central, hit their message boards, and read some of the information regarding the vehicle.
It’s the highest-fuel-economy mass-produced gasoline-powered vehicle on the planet, but it does take some research and adjustment of driving patterns to really make it a standout.
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Matthew P. Barnson
02 Insight Batteries
I am looking at a used vehicle with 63000 commuter miles on it and have the same concern with battery replacement and costs. Can’t seem to locate prices on these batteries anywhere!!!!!!! The asking price is 12,100 and I was thinking about an offer of 10,700 or 11,000.
Thanks for any assistance you can give.
Battery replacements
You might want to cruise the Insight Central forums.
There’s a new article about high-mileage Insights here: http://observer.guardian.co.uk/magazine/story/0,11913,1497824,00.html.
The chief things I’d evaluate are:
The important thing to realize is that there’s an 8-year, 80,000 mile warranty on the battery pack. Honda has been replacing them as high as 100,000 miles on 2000’s and 2001’s. I don’t know about 2002’s.
As to how much the pack costs to replace, that’s a FAQ on InsightCentra.net:
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Matthew P. Barnson
Honda Insight 104 mpg
Dear Matthew….I also bought a 2002 one owner Insight originally from California. The owner Moved to New Hampshire and wanted a truck. I managed to negotiate down to $8000.
THEN we had the computer tweeked, hacked and tuned up by Mike Dabrowski
We can now switch to Battery mode whenever we want…On a ten mile stretch on the flat we can get 104 mpg …even with hills.
But once the battery is low we have to charge it up again and revert back to 65 and 75 mpg.
Yours Sincerely Harry Cotton
Sweet!
Sweet! I’ll have to see if I can figure out how to hack mine.
Mine’s CVT, though, not manual transmission, so I can’t boast numbers like that…
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Matthew P. Barnson
Insight’s Cruise Control
I too bought a new-to-me Insight. I’m in the process of a 4,000 mile trip to bring it back home.
I love it but I need cruise control. What did you do for cruise on yours?
Phil Smith
Cruise
I don’t 🙂 Most of my driving in my Insight is trips shorter than four hours, and the foot is more efficient than cruise up to that length of time. After that, feet become a bit tired and not so good at the mileage anymore.
One day, though, I may add a Rostra Cruise Control. You can find a detailed account of one person’s installation here.
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Matthew P. Barnson
my insight
I have to totally agree with you you on getting your grabby little mitts on an insight. Ive had mine since 01, im just anout to pass over 100,000 and its been great (aside from a paying a little more for my oilchanges). I Actually heard about your site from a total stranger on the job today and had to drop in and show my support. have a good one
dusty SLC-UT
Tires and such…
Had a problem with getting 165/65SR-14 replacement tires, so I opted for the Firestone FR710 175/65R14 which are M & S tires. Less than $60 each and have a 65,000 mile wear rating.
Got a OEM 3 way catalytic converter from the Converter Geek for $247 which normally runs $742 at the Honda dealerships with core charge of $100.
Researching replacement spark plugs as NGK appears to have an exclusive agreement with Honda concerning the special plugs for the Insight.
Good news!
Good news on the catalytic converter. As I near the 100,000 mile mark (going to hit it soon!) I need to perform several fairly major routine maintenance items.
My main complaints are that, as the CVT wears in, it doesn’t offer quite as positive acceleration on the bottom end, the well-known EGR valve failure can cause some chirping at high speeds (I need to replace it, but still have trouble forking out $300 for a part which will only stop a behavior that shows up over 80MPH on warm days), and that replacing the windshield means replacing sixteen clips which take a week to ship. Other than that, so far, the car’s been smooth-sailing.
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Matthew P. Barnson