I do not know if you guys have heard about Terry Schiavo or not. But I am sure you have. Go to cnn.com or nbc4.com to get updates. She is the women who has been brain dead for 11 years or so after an accident. They have removed her feeding tube. Congress is debating whether or not to put it back in.
My thought is, Congress should not get involved this is a personal family decision. My second thought is, this poor lady whether she is brain dead or not is going to be just laying there starving to death while her body shuts down. It could be 2 weeks before she passes away of dehydration. I believe that something should be done to ease her passing so she can go quicker.
I would like to hear your input. How do you feel about this?
–I agree it is one thing whe
–I agree it is one thing when you remove a ventilator and a person dies almost instantly. They certainly don’t go through an agonizing period of wasting away. That is one part that we are not hearing. Are they taking measure’s for the pain that she must be having? Yes I know that they say her cerbral is completly gone and that she really has no responses, but she is starving to death. If the federal courts wanted to get involved they should have made some sort of legistlation to provide for a more immediate death in this case. Instead of a cruel and unusual punishment for being brain dead. Now don’t get me wrong I beileve that if her husband say’s ( the person who is supposed to be her closests confidant ) that she never would have wanted to be that way and to let her die than fine. There should however be a more humane way of doing it. Executions are done better. Now where does this end. I was reading in the Examiner last week how in the Netherlands it is already legal for anyone over the age of 16 to be euthanized. They have already written up paper’s and guidelines to follow if you are an infant as well. As long as the quality of life is different than the ” norm “. The way they have written it though includes things like diabeties, and asthma. If these things are singned off by at least one doctor they can legalaly euthanize the infant. So I ask again where does it end when you start killing for abnormalities. Teresa the Flautist and fire dancer
You see my point
You hit the nail on the head. I do not agree with what they are doing. They should have some steps and guidelines in case this happens. She may not be aware of what is going on, however, she is wasting away and that is not right. It is inhumane to do something like this. Letting her die of starvation is immoral and I think that if the government is going to step in and take over, then they should have a plan of action. I would agree with giving her medicine to ease her into passing away before I agree with her starving to death.
Disagree
Congress should be ashamed of themselves. This is just another example of the retarded moralistic thinking that has taken over this Administration. They seem to think that removing the feeding tube would be “playing God”, without recognizing the fact that if it weren’t for doctors “playing God” in the first place, Terry Schiavo would have died during her heart attack 15 years ago!
This is ridiculous and the woman should be allowed to die with dignity, rather than having her misfiring-electrical-impulse smile broadcast constantly on TV as some sort of blind hope that there’s something going on in her head. For all intents and purposes, she died 15 years ago and what lies in that bed is nothing but a discarded shell. Her cerebral cortex is entirely gone – there is no chance that she is in any way aware of her surroundings.
As for the feeding tube, doctors have agreed that it is indeed the most humane way for her to go. Death would occur in 5-7 days, and Schiavo would feel absolutely nothing. She would not suffer the least bit. This case only serves to remind me of the importance of living wills — if god forbid anything should happen to me, I wouldn’t want my lifeless body paraded around as some sort of symbol of “mercy”. The merciful thing to do would be to let her go.
One news story I read recently made an interesting point. Terry Schiavo was, for years, bulimic. In fact, it was almost definitely the strain that the bulimia placed on her system that led to the early heart attack. Now, if we know that she was bulimic, and therefore was image-conscious to such a degree that she would virtually kill herself over it, it’s pretty safe to assume that she would be horrified to see herself in such a state.
— Ben
Holy Cow!
I can’t believe this. She’s been “living” through a feeder tube for 11 years? That is absolutely nuts. There is no point to life if the brain is not functioning. Can you imagine the medical bills after all these years? Did she have any kdis? Can you imagine all they’ve been through hoping that someday their mommy might come home. It’s terrible.
I don’t feel that Congress should have anything to do with it. It’s definately a family decision, that should be influenced by good doctors who can honestly say, “There’s no hope, it is time to let her go.” There’s all sorts of drugs that can help her be done in this life without “starving her” even if she doesn’t feel the pain of it. Be done and have a funeral already.
As for me, I don’t want to ever be hooked up to any type of life support. If it’s my time to go, let me go. —
Christy
I am surprised…
Christy, I am surprised to find that you and I are on the same side of this issue. Dawn and I have had very heated disagreements on this and I would have guess from experience that you shared her opinion, not mine.
One way or the other though, it really doesn’t matter what we think, though in this case, we’re right 🙂
——– Visit my blog, eh! The Murphy Maphia
by heated i mean…
I’ve been told to correct my statement about these so-called “heated” discussions. Apparently they have not been as heated as I let on.
——– Visit my blog, eh! The Murphy Maphia
One added note
–YOu said that death would occur for her in 5-7 day’s. I would like to correct that. From what I understand it could take up to two weeks just for the dehydration to set in and a possibility of a closer death. Hence the reason I feel that they should have found a way for a speedier deat in this case. I don’t care if she is aware of it or not. It’s inhumane to watch someone that you know is going to die and not to either help them or help it along. Two weeks is a long time for anybody to have to suffer through that state. It not only affects the person dying but the hospital personel as well. How would you like to be the nurse that is still going in to bathe her and check on her and know you can’t feed her? It is a wrenching situation for all. As well as the family knowing that they couldn’t give their loved one that last bit of dignity. Do they allow for faster assisted death’s in living will’s? Teresa the Flautist and fire dancer
Assisted Suicide
Well, I said 5-7 days because that’s what I heard a doctor say on the news. Perhaps death occurs faster because of the absence of the cerebral cortex or something?
Anyway, the point is that removing the feeding tube is simply the only way. Anything else is assisted suicide, and therefore illegal (albeit more humane).
— Ben
sad
Yes this is sad that congress had to get involved and all that, frankly I think congress has no business in this affair. However the rest of you that don’t like government getting your personal stuff go get your self a living will. Oh and by the way, if you really want a living will, come see me, I can do those you know!!
Living Will
I am taking exactly one lesson away from this whole affair:
Write a living will
Spell out exactly what your desires are in case of various accidents, so that your wishes are honored. If something falls out of the conditions spelled out in your living will, assign the right to decide the fate of your life to the person whom you trust most by granting them power of attorney.
As far as her particular case, I don’t think there’s a right answer. Were it not for modern medicine, she’d have died 15 years ago.
Then again, I’d have been dead at 17 if not for modern medicine. My tonsil was massively inflamed, to roughly the size of a baseball, and I could barely breathe. Quick action by a doctor to drain the tonsil after a rough weekend of recording at Ben’s house kept me from dying in my sleep that night.
But the key difference is that, shortly after that experience, I returned to normal function. My brain worked. Well, at least I think so, though several people disagree with me.
Hers doesn’t. Most of the cerebral cortex died, and was replaced with spinal fluid. The court has repeatedly determined that, were she aware of her situation, she would not wish to continue living. These judgments have been blocked by her family, up to and including the current appeal to lawmakers. I sympathize with their pain, though, that they think further treatment is possible and higher-order brain function can be restored. It’s a tough situation all around.
There is no “dying with dignity” in this case, though. Any possible dignity was lost seven years ago when the first judgment was stonewalled. Since then, she’s just lingered on.
As far as Congress goes, I see nothing but political grandstanding. Much like the days after 9-11, when Congress hastily passed the PATRIOT act, every senator seems to be attempting to look even more serious and concerned than his neighbor. I’m going to look up and see if my local representatives took advantage of this difficult situation for personal gain, and if they did, that might be a strike against them come voting time.
—
Matthew P. Barnson
Political Gain
Congress’ involvement is all for political gain.
If I were an elected official my response would be: “This has been going on for some time, a family matter, through the courts, various doctors. I’m not getting involved at this point because I’d look like an idiot getting involved, since there’s really no immediate policy implication. Especially considering that we just had a major gun shooting today in a school and I’ve done nothing today to help curb the number of guns in schools.”
But hey, that’s me.
Political Gain
Congress’ involvement is all for political gain.
If I were an elected official my response would be: “This has been going on for some time, a family matter, through the courts, various doctors. I’m not getting involved at this point because I’d look like an idiot getting involved, since there’s really no immediate policy implication. Especially considering that we just had a major gun shooting today in a school and I’ve done nothing today to help curb the number of guns in schools.”
But hey, that’s me.
Who are we “helping” here
Sam, do you think it’s all for political gain? 😉
But Sammy’s right. Congress got involved so they could look good and say they tried to save someone’s life. But Terry Shiavo has no life now, outside of medical machinery.
None of this has to do with Terry, and everything to do with ourselves. Her parents want to make themselves feel better. We don’t like the idea of a person “starving”, but in order to feel hungry, you have to have a brain that’s alive. She doesn’t. She won’t feel a thing, I promise. Terry Schiavo is like a big Rorschach test for us. How we feel about this, how we react, what we do does nothing for her but tells volumes about us.
She should be allowed to die, because she hasn’t lived in 11 years.
My $.02 Weed
Not up to us
Weed, thanks for the support!
My feeling is that, at this point, it’s not up to you or I whether or not she should live or die. When Congress gets involved, that the representative voice of the voters stepping in. A government that’s of the people and by the people doesn’t get involved in this situation, based on the Constitution.
I just cant believe nobody ha
I just cant believe nobody has looked at the fact the guy is living with a lady with kids and hasn’t been taking care of her. Why in the world would he have any say when he is having his cake and eating it too. divorce and get out of it, oh wait their goes all his money. missy
My co-workers and I were just
My co-workers and I were just talking about that yesterday. If he divorces her then he looses out on the insurance and everything. That is why they think after 11 years that he is finally trying to let her go. He has found someone else and wants to move on and can’t because his current wife doesn’t know what is going on. If he felt like this, he should have let her go 10 years ago when they realized that they she will not get better.
I heard this morning on the radio that the parents were denied again to replace the feeding tube. They are on their way to the supreme court to get intervention on this case.
Details?
I guess there’s no kids from the marriage, which frankly, I’m happy for. And apparently the husband was ready to pull the feeding tube back in ’98, so all this time, she’s been stuck in that hospital due to the desires of her parents. Personally, once you’re married, your parents should not have that kind of say. Oh well.
I do however think that he hasn’t filed for a divorce knowing that soon she would have to finish dying so that he could collect the insurance. He already received $$ from a malpractice settlement several years ago, what’s another easy hundred grand or two?
Meanwhile, the parents are wasting our tax dollars trying to get the congress and supreme court involved. Maybe somebody will do the right thing here. —
Christy
Insurance money
This talk about getting the remainder of “insurance money” is ludicrous. There is none. There may be some small residual from whatever’s left of the $770,000 that was awarded 12 years ago which Terry received as part of a medical malpractice suit, but that’s small potatoes. And in all likelihood, almost totally gone due to medical costs.
Michael received a $1,000,000 offer to drop the case. He also received a $10,000,000 very recently to do so. He turned them both down. Regardless, he doesn’t have the power to intervene in that way in the case, and hasn’t for over seven years.
It’s somewhat difficult to explain exactly why he has no say in the matter (and has not since 1998), but this page explains it: http://abstractappeal.com/schiavo/infopage.html.
Basically, in 1998, he turned the matter over to the courts since he and her parents had arrived at an impasse over her fate. At that point, legally, the court was Terry. Their goal was to determine what Terry’s will would be in the situation, since neither husband nor parents could create an adequate case and she had no living will. The procedure he followed was to allow the courts to decide. The court appointed him to represent the side of the case advocating removal of the feeding tube.
Think about Michael at that point. The man changed careers so that he could work at a hospital nearby and be close to his wife. He visited her very regularly (changing his job to work right next door) for eight years in hopes she’d recover.
She never did. In 1998, brain scans showed that she had no “brain” left, other than some small chunks here and there. He gave up hope at that point that she’d ever recover.
It would take a literal miracle to create brain where it has been almost completely destroyed.
Michael having “taken up” with another woman is quite a recent affair. I hate to say it, but I don’t blame him. Twelve years with one’s wife effectively dead? That’s a heck of a long time to mourn. Regardless, he is affianced to his new love, and presumably would need to obtain a divorce before he could marry his fiancee.
The only real controversy remaining in this case is that he’s still married to Terry.
In talking about this yesterday with Christy, I tried to imagine myself in his position. The reality is, this man is a widow right now, stuck in the unenviable position of advocating that his wife be allowed to finish dying. Obtaining a divorce would be a disservice to her memory. If I were him, I would fight suggestions of divorcing the love of my life just to assuage public opinion regarding my motives.
If anyone doubts his fidelity, witness his years of faithful care. He still loves her, and will love her to his dying day.
It’s too bad her dying day has lasted for fifteen years.
—
Matthew P. Barnson
–Very poingnant Matt. You s
–Very poingnant Matt. You shed a new light on the situation and I only wish that everyone could have read your report. Not everyone knows the things you said. Teresa the Flautist and fire dancer
It seems we’re not alone…
It seems that this is a hot topic, not just on this blog and mine, but also around the country… http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7277674/
——– Visit my blog, eh! The Murphy Maphia
A nurse’s perspective…
Okay.. lets cover a few things..
I do think they should remove the feeding tube, if it has been conclusively proven that she is not mentally there. I’d love to see new footage of her that verifies what her mental status really is. It needs to be done in such a way that it doesn’t set a legal precedent for families to able to arbitrarily remove feeding tubes from viable patients.
If she is there at all.. the tube should stay. If not, it sets the precedent that tubes can be removed from other patients with brain damage or retardation. If the argument is, “She’ll never be what she was”, sorry.. keep the tube. Certainly, don’t put her on a vent or rescuscitate her.. but it can’t be because she “will never be the same”.. it has to be because she is gone.
If she is just gone, then it is time. If it conclusive that she wanted it out, then its time. There are claims that she is improving, I want to see them disproved, or proved…
As for helping her along once its out.. understand, she hasn’t had a full stomach for years. Its not like she will be hungry… she’s been getting a milky solution that is absorbed almost immediately.
Dehydration is a fine way to go.. its painless. the thirst center of the brain isn’t functioning at this point. She won’t be thirsty. Additionally.. she will most likely be sedated and will definitely be given pain measures. The lack of water will cause her body to gently shut itself down.. but in a pain free manner. There is nothing cruel about it unless you are on the side of keeping her alive.
Assisting the death means she dies a couple of days sooner… but after this many years, it doesn’t matter.
As for the nurse’s perspective.. that’s what we do. Sometimes, we take care of the dying. We bathe, feed, care for, and sometimes form attachments to people who are dying. She’s probably got a Hospice nurse if the tube is coming out.. and thats ALL they do.
Here is the latest and greatest
The parents were denied by the supreme court. Here is the link.
EDIT by matthew: Linked.
Closing to more comments
I’m closing this entry to new comments; I suspect that in short order (due to a weirdly high current Google ranking) this page will be overrun with drive-by posters.
The reason for closing the thread?
Basically, Internet “activists” who consider it their sacred duty to try to push political agendas by “astroturfing” (faking a grassroots campaign) on other people’s blogs. It bugs me, and I don’t like having to delete a boatload of comments every day. It’s a fun topic, and those posts which remain, I think, are all very relevant and timely. It’s the ones I deleted from anonymous strangers trying sell their politics which caused the lock.
If you’d like to continue the discussion in another vein (for instance, after she dies, or if Jeb Bush somehow becomes her guardian), feel free to do so 🙂
—
Matthew P. Barnson